Is It Worth It to Beat Neirautomata Again
I practice no similar NieR: Automata at all. I'm not going to dilute the purpose of this thread by listing all of my reasons for feeling this way-- I'1000 genuinely curious as to what exactly people liked most this game, then I want to hear it direct from the fans. Every discussion I've seen around this game has been full of people walking on eggshells around spoilers and folks who mention little moments they like rather than what makes them savour the game holistically. I have played and browbeaten the entire game and I all the same don't "get" the appeal. Let'south become existent in here.
Yes, I realize that my confusion tin exist addressed with a uncomplicated "it's not for everyone," but I'thou absolutely flabbergasted by the love surrounding this game and I just desire to sympathize. I also feel like it doesn't injure to have a thread filled exclusively with positivity. So be honest: why do you love this video game?
EDIT: Because a few people accept suggested it, I figured I'd pop into the OP and say that I've already listened to the Waypoint Nier spoilercast multiple times. It did non give me the kind of deep dive I was looking for. I take plant this thread much more than helpful thus far.
As a game, I think Automata kinda sucks. The combat's a mashy slog, the same areas are used advertisement nauseum, and at that place's non a lot to see in the first identify. The reason why I withal like Automata is because I think the story'south pretty neat and goes to interesting places. The theme of what constitutes humanity and life, among others, is a especially resonant one for me. Then there'south just a smattering of great moments all throughout: "This cannot continue", "Yous desire to **** her", deciding what to do with Pascal and the consequences of that, 9S' slow descent into madness, and and then on.
@elmorales94: For me Automata was an uneven experience, filled with peaks and valleys, but when information technology was good it was really practiced. Here's a curt list of the things that I liked. (In that location will be some spoilers following.)
ane. The music. This is a total personal selection, but for me Automata had the OST of the year. Even when I had to practice backtracking that I didn't want to do, the music never got sometime.
2. The game feel. And so I really like the way Platinum's games feel to play. Fifty-fifty though I often felt many encounters were weak, and launchers being tied to grapheme level was super dumb, movement and gainsay just felt pleasing. (Too many shmup sections though.)
3. The armchair philosophy into what it means to be "human". I could see this turning a lot of people off, but I really love that the game went in that location. This could be filed under "Anime Bullshit" but I liked it.
4. The ending credits. This was the gaming moment of the year for me. At outset it seemed fun. Then irritating. (I really didn't want to ask for help.) And so when I finally accustomed the aid, only to then find these were the save files of other players... Man that just took my breath away.
While there were plenty of other moments that I liked, these were the large things for me.
Yes, I'chiliad a sadist.
Anyways, those were two examples of many. I could go on, but you lot should really but listen to http://vicegamingnew.vice-media.libsynpro.com/bonus-pod-nier-automata-spoilercast. It covers nearly of what you're going to find hither.
@pyrodactyl: I've listened to the Waypoint spoilercast multiple times, it just didn't exercise much in the style of articulating why they liked the game. I see what they liked near it, merely they don't do much in the way of explaining why or how those moments resonated with them. It's a lot of "this bit was great" and non "this is why this chip was slap-up."
I don't feel like I love the game as much every bit others do, just that'southward about entirely due to gameplay bug I have with it. It only doesn't have a lot of depth as an action game to me. If it weren't for how the game is able to transition from its regular combat to the shoot-em-up stuff to at to the lowest degree change things up a little bit, I could've easily gotten too bored to stop it.
What kept me going was the story, which I remember is notwithstanding the best story in a game for me this year. Whether I liked or hated anyone in the main cast, the game did a good job making you feel invested in their consequence. Fifty-fifty when the game could be a grind, I wanted to proceed going because I wanted to believe there was some hopeful catastrophe for these characters trapped in a wheel of destruction. And I thought what the game does with Ending E is a surprisingly bright way to reach that. I'm not gonna say all of it'southward perfectly paced, but information technology'south a story that stuck with me long subsequently I finished it.
Then yes, if its story doesn't grab you in some way like information technology did for me, I suspect you will have a lot of problem getting anything else satisfying out of the game. To me, that's the game'southward one real selling betoken.
Information technology's an open world Platinum game only with added RPG-elements and a crazier story than Metallic Gear Rising, this is a recipe for success for me.
I kind of presume that platinum games usually has a wacky spectacular story and a good soundtrack merely this game just exceeded all that.
I'm also a real sucker for the games that just presents a crazy scenario/mystery that keeps me wanting to find out what the hell is going on in this earth and how stuff ended upwardly this way and I know that it will take some interesting revelations nigh the end, those games was kind of restricted to Visual Novels that I got into recently like the Danganronpa, Cypher Escape and possibly Ace Attorney series of games. It'southward nice that the crazy story twists of games like this can exist exterior of visual novels somewhat.
I'yard trying to think if Metal Gear Ascent or Nier Automata had a crazier story but they feel similar kind of different types of crazy, anyone got whatever thoughts? Are they fifty-fifty comparable?
I've been putting a lot of thought into this myself, so alibi me if this is kind of rambly because I'm making sense of this equally I get.
A lot of it is history. I've played Taro Yoko games since the first Drakengard, before I knew that there was a "Taro Yoko". It was just a absurd Dynasty Warriors game with a dragon. Dragons are cool!
Now, you desire a bad game? Like, a legitimately bad, poorly written, looks-like-dogshit game? That'south what Drakengard was. It'due south a terrible game and it's also one of my favorite games on the PS2. So on some level, something almost this guy, the managing director, merely *clicks* with me. The games, even when good, are e'er slightly off. Even when backed upwards past a proven studio similar Platinum, and what appears to be their A-Team, Nier: Automata doesn't play that great, and I retrieve at least some of that is on Yoko himself. He's simply not that skilled at actually making a video game. Merely what he lacks in technical skill he makes up for with a willingness to be unlike. To challenge the player, and not necessarily in search of profundity? Sometime the challenge is "why are you even playing this?" There are so many side quests in the original Nier that are directly upwardly, Grade-A Garbage, and it feels similar the developer is explicitly taunting yous. The original Drakengard's final ending (which leads into Nier) requires yous detect every weapon in the game (many of which have garbage requirements), then fight a rhythm game boss (which was garbage) and and then unceremoniously kills the main character. Curl credits. It was basically a joke ending. Which is a super weird thing to list as a positive, right? But there is a personality in all of this and I just. Works with me. I tin can't explain it beyond that.
Okay, at present for this game, with some more traditional positive points. The gameplay gets me to where I need to be. Information technology didn't bother me, I didn't honey it, it was like shooting fish in a barrel to push button mash through, peculiarly towards the end. I think I died 3 times. What I love are the characters. I beloved Pascal, I dear the interplay between 2B and 9S, I beloved how that interplay changes in retrospect when you larn the twist (I won't spoil here, only information technology's one of the good "encounter all previous scenes in a new perspective" twists). I even kind of like the villains, who in their ain way were just as clueless as the histrion characters, even if Adam tried to permit on that he knew everything.
But I think the biggest thing is that this is one of the only games that's made me think nearly information technology afterwards, and think almost what it means or says. The original Nier made me weep, simply in the end is kind of shallow (though does some cool things with expanding perspective). Only Nier: Automata makes me call up about certain life question and no, information technology'due south not "are robots people?" At least, that wasn't what I got out of information technology. To me, Nier: Automata is past that question halfway into the desert chapter. The answer is yes, they're people. Not too long afterwards you lot encounter Pascal. If the question was "are robots people" and then Pascal would exist a much bigger bargain. 2B and 9S (especially 9S) never quite arrive all the mode over that loma, but their confusion is not the principal point of this story. The master signal, or I approximate I should say the question, is "where do nosotros discover purpose?" The game is distilled existentialism, and it tells the story in a way that is both applicable to living humans and also uniquely suited to a story about robots. Considering in Nier: Automata, the androids and machines are created with a conspicuously defined purpose. They have real, physical, present Gods. And over the class of the story, the main characters, and the machines has a whole, learn that their Gods are expressionless. And that they are specifically created People with no purpose. What happens next? And it all runs perfectly into Ending E, where the player is forced to confront and define what they aspect purpose to, one fashion or the other.
I'one thousand not going to go along going down that route. I but wanted to highlight that no other game has really made me think nigh it in these kinds of critical terms. Which is why I "love" this game, despite it's flaws. I'one thousand non going to tell you it's perfect. I'k non going to say that information technology'south perfectly justifiable that 2B is a sexy lady. Only I love this game. I hope that reading this all makes sense. It's very personal to me, you'll probably read it and become "what the fuck is beforet talking about?" Merely it'south the best caption I've got.
TL;DR: It's not the simply reason, but I actually like NieR: Automata's story and themes.
- The music and way: Not everything is bang-up artistically most NieR. The PC port could take handled things better and some textures await plain. That said, some things really stand out, with the music existence #i with a bullet. Some songs are dissimilar anything I have always heard in a videogame. Some are incredibly peaceful and relaxing to listen to while I am laying downwards. Only there are too those epic tracks for those ballsy battles. That's not to mention how in that location are chiptune style versions for so many of those songs. Besides that, in that location are some other nice stylish touches, like how the moon base is black and white, the costumes, etc.
- The story: The A to Z (or, you know, A to Eastward) plot is pretty damn great. I like how the game builds intrigue and and then has those really big, hard hitting moments, with the opening of Route C and some of the climatic encounters in C & D. The game's themes are conveyed actually well through the different side stories, like the forest kingdom, the zealots, the THIS CANNOT Continue familial unit of measurement, etc. All of those story beats add together layers to The End of Yorha in such an eloquent manner. Information technology'due south piece of cake to indicate to the ending and say "Hey, isn't that nuts", but it'due south honestly a lot more than that. The ending happens to do such a fantastic chore putting a menses on the whole thing.
- The side quests: Beyond the story, the game'south themes, world, and tone builds through side quests and side characters. One notable example is how 2B is tasked to hunt down the defected Yorha units. This foreshadows how she is actually 2E, which itself builds upon the true nature of 2B and 9S'south relationship.
- RPG elements & UI: The chip system, the weapon stories, beingness able to remove the Bone chip, seeing a recording of 2B navigating the menus at the beginning of the game, allowing yourself to self destruct, etc. All of that stuff is really neat. Not the biggest affair in the world, but all of that presentation and customization stuff I really enjoyed.
- Oh by the way, it's as well a Platinum game: The big fix piece battles are really cool. The game opens with 2B ripping off an Engels machine'due south arm and hitting it with it. The bigger air battles were pretty spectacular as they were happening. A2 and 9S'due south chase up the belfry, with how the game alternates between the two different encounters is 1 of my favorite gameplay sequences I've played this twelvemonth. Yeah, the gameplay is in some ways dependent on what you put into it. If you utilise the same weapons or don't customize your chips in a unique style, it'south going to get stale. With regards to the gameplay, I recollect information technology is fun, but it is a fiddling button doughy. I think most of the gameplay criticisms people (including myself) may have tin be tied back to how long the game is. I put in about 37 hours into NieR. A game like Bayonetta 2 may be more fun to play, simply that game is as well like 6 hours long. If y'all add another xxx hours on summit of that, Bayonetta will also have some of those aforementioned issues.
The characters and themes resonated with me, not just because I chronicle to them (and I don't relate to a lot of them), but considering they're just presented with the vicious honesty they require. The game gave me a lot of things to think about that no other video game has come shut to offering, and the thing everyone says: Ending East uses the format of beingness a video game and the manner I remember about video games to covey a message (in a way that even the original Nier didn't manage). A lot of video games accept very cliche, safe stories that pull their punches, and even the ones that don't like The Last of Us are trying so hard to emulate movies that they get cliché, prophylactic stories, that also aren't fifty-fifty as good every bit their contemporaries.
There's also the fact that it was a rare example of a game total of intrigue that was actually satisfying when it concluded. Yes, in that location'due south a bunch of additional reading you can practice exterior of the game to discover out about the history and lore of that globe, just like with the first game, but I oasis't ever felt the need to seek whatsoever of information technology out because the game pulled off its ending and tied upward all of the themes and questions it had perfectly.
The soundtrack is fantastic, and combining it with the Platinum tech that lets them seamlessly transition between unlike versions of the tracks gives the world and scenarios a sense of progression. It'due south in a similar vein to the original Nier, so the "uniqueness" factor wasn't there for me, just it just adds so much and sounds so good that even the few recycled tracks didn't bother me.
I'k besides a big fan of the art, it's very serene and bleak at the same fourth dimension, enough that I just felt calm and pleasant whenever I was running around that main city hub. The entertainment park is breathtaking, and a great case of how to make something expect incredible without a CoD upkeep. There'south also that sense of progression again every bit parts of the world change, though admittedly this is pretty minor (though used to swell upshot when your base of operations is suddenly gone for the last 3rd of the game, and you're stuck in the increasingly empty globe with no escape from the increasingly horrible things that are happening in that location).
Honestly at that place's also just a lot virtually this game I can't put into words. I saw Alex proverb something forth the lines of "I don't have counter arguments when people say they didn't enjoy 10 in Nier, because I only didn't feel that way", and that'south about the same for me. Everything in the game clicked with me, even the gameplay which is ordinarily regarded as the game'due south worst feature by critics and fans alike. I can explain why I like the game on a base level, but putting into words why I loved the stuff I truly love about this game is and so deeply personal that you're non going to all of a sudden empathise why I like information technology whatsoever more than you lot practice now.
While I don't call up Yoko Taro has come anywhere close, I recollect he is basically trying to make the Watchmen of video games. (I likewise dubiety that Yoko Taro knows what Watchmen is, except maybe that there was a film.) A lot of people don't like Watchmen, or at to the lowest degree don't meet what'southward so special almost it, because they take information technology all on face up value. They don't delve into the complicated relationships, the detail packed into each niggling interaction, the conflict of philosophical positions, the parody of common conventions, or how so much of information technology tin only exist done in the comic book format. I mean, await at chapter V of Watchmen. The whole event is in perfect symmetry, with panels on the first page mirroring the panels on the last folio, and so on until the middle two pages are symmetrical with themselves. The disability to transfer so many of these ideas (and that was the easiest one to explain) are office of why the film was so, "meh."
Anyway, Yoko Taro is trying to tell a story that tin simply be told in video game format. A lot of what is done in these games cannot be done in other mediums. (I suppose House of Leaves comes shut.) Information technology's really hard to explain some of this without getting into spoiler territory, and then slight spoilers ahead. An case is how the opening mission doesn't accept a save state. At first this is annoying, specially on hard, but there comes a point in the game where you tin meet that entire section from another grapheme's perspective, and if you pay attention, you lot'll find that you are actually playing adjacent to yourself from the opening mission, with all the same moves and actions. Yep, that instance is non that mind bravado, but it is an example of something that could not exist washed in another format. I won't spoil the rest.
At that place is besides a wealth of philosophy, musings on what constitutes life, and fifty-fifty little jokes fabricated at the expense of some existentialist authors. We sympathize with the androids, considering it is in our nature to sympathize with point of view characters and those we meet struggle, only as you play the game you come to realize that many of the enemies are going through their own struggles, and as you watch the machines try to emulate different aspects of human life, just for and so many of them to fail, you lot brainstorm to ask yourself what exactly makes human life unique. Is it the struggle to survive? Is it significant derived from worshiping a possibly unreal god (humanity in this game)? Is it family? A rex? We meet both machines and androids struggle with these ideas and neglect. Ane particularly haunting scene fifty-fifty shoes a machine trying to imitate the concept of dazzler and desire, only for it to backlash.
It's really fascinating how many dissimilar 'meanings for life' are shown in this game. Brotherhood. Peace. Work. Guilt. Revenge. And then on. We are presented with surface details, then as we go through path B, we tin can run into more perspectives that we didn't consider or take knowledge of in path A. And so path C/D shows an ultimate conflict (ironically near killing 'god,' in a nod to many old JRPG tropes) that twists in a mode that is over again about life and the struggle to only exist.
Oh, and that ending. I had no desire to delete my save, but in one case information technology got to the point, I didn't think I had a choice. Certain, those little messages were a flake on the nose, only subsequently seeing so many other people brand that selection and leave those messages, I felt a weird sort of connection that I never really felt in a video game before. The catastrophe of Earthbound comes close, but this was on a whole unlike level. I felt both distressing and happy. Afterwards some of the very lackluster video game endings this year — I'm looking at you, Breath of the Wild — that was just fantastic. That may go down every bit my favorite catastrophe in a video game.
~
A wild edit appears! ~~~ Oh, and the soundtrack and connections to the original NieR title, such as the twins, were also fantastic. Oh, oh! And the subtleties in the titling of words such as NieR and YoRHa, and how they peradventure relate to the Enochian or Celestial Alphabet alphabet, are just fantastic piffling subconscious details that are left for the thespian to detect.
~
All that said, the gameplay is alright and often sacrifices itself for the sake of the story being told. Path B is definitely not amazing from a gameplay perspective, and as practiced as I got at the hacking mini-game, I really dreaded playing as that graphic symbol. That section where you have to cross the map while injured was as well frustrating, though once again, information technology was designed that manner for the sake of the story. If you're budgeted this game from a purely "I want to take fun by killing stuff and exploring", similar you would in a Mario, Zelda, or another game, you can and will exist frustrated. The activity is much better than previous titles — Drakengard 3 was particularly bad — which makes this game more than palatable, but information technology is not the primary draw. It is only the vehicle through which the game is played.
Though I will say that the gameplay isn't all bad. I did take fun in a lot of sections. Dissimilar that damn desert section in Drakengard 3. Damn you Drakengard!
I simply wanted to point out that the **** is probably not the four letter work people call back it is. Okay, spoiler territory:
See, petty details like that, that play upon people's expectations and subvert them, is part of the charm of the game.
While I love Nier Automata and everything it stands for and I think you don't know anything about video games if you don't recollect it should exist game of the twelvemonth, if I'thousand really being honest, I haven't even played the matter yet.
Afterward playing through Nier for almost of this year I finally got sick of the awful combat and garbage fetch quests and just looked upward the rest of the story on youtube. Honey the soundtrack and the dumb anime story but I simply couldn't stand playing it anymore.
In that location's an atmosphere and general philosophy/outlook out of Yoko Taro that actually speaks to me. Nier the original and Automata both just accept this ethereal aura around them that I really enjoy. I spent a lot of time just roaming in the original considering I liked being in that world and soaking in it.
It's the kind of thing that's difficult to exist specific almost, and even if I tin make specific examples, I don't retrieve I can requite y'all the total picture of how I feel. But I'll give it a shot.
Drakengard and Nier exudes nihilism, merely not strictly in a depressing or nighttime manner. They are really surprisingly upbeat at times, and the meaninglessness of the globe ties to a certain extent into hope and the strength of the people in the games. I feel like they are worlds of rampant and sometimes ludicrous hardship, but through perseverance and cede you tin always live on with what little you have. It's not quite bloodshot, but more like bleakly hopeful. It just really speaks to me (and perhaps says something virtually me as a person).
And other than that. I have stiff interest in looking at the heed of of the author in most art forms. And fifty-fifty if I don't get everything (or fifty-fifty anything) right. It's still an enjoyable exercise to await at something and so try to look past the thing itself and see where information technology was coming from. Yoko Taro is a really interesting dude, and he wears his design on his sleeve. His games has e'er come beyond every bit not having an editor, a stream of consciousness from a actually unique heed. There's a lot of neat stuff about how he disrespects design convention and his view on what tin exist done with games. While fucking over the role player to make a point is frowned upon in gamedesign, he volition encounter an opportunity in it (for meliorate or for worse) and make decisions that any regular studio would take close down instantly, giving the games a really unique flavor that you really won't get anywhere else.
Oh and Automata plays pretty well which none of the other games did so that's a huge bonus. And the maid costumes are beautiful.
The end
Heady, satisfying and fulfilling combat system with a lot of depth. Engaging story, characters and side-quests. One of those games you can lose a lot of hours to without actually realising it. Game gets improve as information technology goes. Your showtime two play throughs deal with different perspectives of the aforementioned timeline, merely your third play through is a continuation of that timeline, which is something I didn't wait. I found myself thinking virtually this game when I wasn't playing, and researching the previous Nier game.
For the whole of my playing experience, information technology fills me with simultaneous and equal feelings of oncoming dread, deep sadness, excitement at future developments and eventually, as though a reward for persevering: the happiest I've ever been during a video game.
Also, I really actually dig the gameplay but no one e'er believes that.
@poobumbutt: The gameplay has a lot of subconscious depth to it, and really solid "feel" to everything yous do. The problem is just that the enemies are really irksome and basic, and things die too fast to become fancy on. The DLC actually had some really fun battles that I wish would've been more prevalent in the main game.
So yeah basically I like information technology too, just information technology's not hard to see why a lot of people don't.
Swell fine art pattern, engaging characters, amazing soundtrack, not to mention 1 of the all-time stories in a game I have played in years, lots of hidden stuff and cool secrets. While maybe some parts of the game play dragged on, a bit, I still enjoyed it. Just I tin can run across why the tone and themes of NieR Automata can be above some peoples heads.
@rich666: Please don't practise the "You accept to accept a very high IQ to empathize..." thing.
The game itself is clearly made for teens and I doubtfulness people have any issues understanding the game when well-nigh sidequests rub it direct into your face. The master quest even more so. The plots main themes and why information technology matters in context is straight spelled out in the main story is for the well-nigh role directly adressed.
I can understand why people may find it obnoxious though or don't notice the tone of the game all that strong until the ending. Some parts of the game are more subtle (see what @viking_funeral wrote) but about of them really aren't.
All in all, its a creative game but likewise thank you to the whole team of P+. I wish people would cease hailing Yoko Taro equally some sort of auteur god-male monarch simply its all virtually the games while I as well have my doubts that well-nigh people are actually this serious about information technology and are mostly joking and simply having fun :).
All in all, I think the general consensus is that Nier: AM is a good and fun game. People not actually liking the game isn't detrimental for the ones enjoying it.
EDIT: Also you can really meet why they took the piss on the game itself with the DLC.
@tobbrobb: Read this and this on the matter. Some of the themes of the game are only some of the darker aspects of these two things. Nier: AM does try to explain these sort of things to the thespian, at least more or less so (Drakengard but especially Nier stride into Anime territory a little too much for my taste, it comes off as dizzy in tone). And some things are just made nighttime for the heck of it, because Yoko Taro comes from the same schoolhouse of thought every bit people similar Anno (quite a lot fifty-fifty) and in some parts Kojima (who also draws some of his inspirations from people like Anno). Hes not that good at it, some of the inspiration is brushed a little chip as well thick and since hes non equally skilful as either Kojima or Anno (at that place are more, but I'd rather just listing these two people since they're popular) only nosotros're still talking well-nigh the person who made the game about people eating Behemothic Babies so thats ok as in that location have to be games stepping into semi-absurdist territory where things don't take to make contextual sense.
Sometimes you can even be more artistic almost the thing, kinda like how they made the post-apocalyptic setting of Lordran interesting in both writing and the gameplay.
And when it comes to translating weird stuff like this into the video game format hes pretty great, but not in terms of his general writing since Yoko Taro is more like the type of video game director who is the weird, creative and in parts even experimental and its neat even if the games aren't all super-keen.
I think I mostly only enjoyed the combat, except when you had to play as 9S. The story and characters were okay. The earth was adequately boring though. Merely yeah the gainsay, and the shmup parts were quite enjoyable to me.
The themes of the game resonated with me very strongly, culminating in an emotional ending E segment.
I likewise beloved everything else about it, the earth, the music, the combat, the sidequests, the story.
Information technology'south my 2nd or 3rd (still waffling) game of all time.
When I played the commencement game 6 years ago and loved it, I didn't imagine there'd be a sequel that I'd love even more than.
@beforet: @viking_funeral: @tobbrobb:
These responses have gotten me closer to getting what people see in the game, and so thanks to y'all and everyone else who has replied thus far.
A large part of what has put me off to Nier since playing it has been the fanbase. I was very lukewarm toward it to begin with, but the discourse around the game has embittered me towards it. That's why I wanted to make this thread for frank positive discussion. I realize that it isn't fair to hold the fans confronting the game itself, but information technology's hard to ignore whenever I'm trying to engage in these sorts of conversations near the game. It has the Undertale (or, more recently, Rick and Morty) problem: a rabid condescending fanbase that is quick to tell you that you're as well dumb to "get it." That part of the community has shown itself a few times in this thread, merely I'thousand happy to come across that, mostly, there are people here that are willing to acknowledge the game's flaws while also gushing about why they love it nonetheless.
I've studied English my whole life and I currently teach information technology for a living. I've been reading mainly dystopian and existentialist fiction for my entire literary career. This game is not to a higher place my head-- in fact, information technology has a lot of the problems that repel me from most fiction in these genres. The unique part of Nier'south story isn't what ideas or stories it conveys, it is all in how the game conveys them. That is the role which I notice about narratively intriguing here. However, the success of these incidents of story-telling through game mechanics depend heavily upon how much the thespian is enjoying the gameplay experience to begin with which, for me, was non very much at all.
I spent my early teens thinking about the questions the Nier: Automata poses, and I came to my own conclusions. That'southward what I am most disappointed in here-- information technology doesn't offer conclusions. I'm not looking for the game to confirm my understanding of the world, but I am looking for it to posit anything across overwrought philosophical questions-- any solution that I may not take thought of or seen before. It does not, in my feel.
Someone mentioned seeing the empty landscape of Nier as being chock with potential for a rich future despite the world's apparent destruction. This is the sort of thing that I was hoping to see explored, but the game did not practice nearly enough of that for me. It'due south a lot of hours of robots moping almost what has passed as opposed to looking at what could exist. The conclusion that I'm nearing (pun non intended) thanks to these responses is that this game largely represents a worldview that I no longer have patience for. The promise that I'm looking for isn't there, except at the very finish. Honestly, I nonetheless experience that, as much as catastrophe Due east gestures toward promise, the mechanical implications of that sequence piece of work against its stated intentions.
Again, I'm getting closer to understanding the passion that people have for this game, even if I do not relate at all. Thank you for your input!
I enjoyed the gainsay quite a lot. It was INCREDIBLY improved from the get-go Nier's gainsay, so I saw it wholly as an comeback in every style, instead of "Platinum's next activeness game" like I recollect a lot of people looked at it as.
Compared to Bayonetta the combat own't all that, but compared to original Nier? Information technology might likewise be the greatest gainsay system in the world.
Plus that soundtrack is so skillful! Even afterward finishing it I sometimes hover over the Automata icon in my PS4 tray simply to hear a bit of that beautiful score once more.
Route B can be a flake of a slog, especially if y'all don't like/ aren't proficient at (ME) the hacking minigame. That's probably my most substantial complaint.
@elmorales94: i beloved automata but I understand what you mean about conclusions. It's completely different in, well, basically every facet, but that's why Crazy Ex-Girlfriend is probably my favorite TV show of all fourth dimension. Information technology'due south a parody of the Crazy Ex stereotype, but it's also explaining why someone would be that person, why someone would practise the things they practice, etc. Not merely that, but they're offering conclusions/solutions, and the best part of the show is the fact that the chief graphic symbol IS healing from her mental health bug, and she's working on information technology.
Peradventure that was a meaningless tangent, but people love Automata because this level of, well, storytelling is rarely made, and peculiarly non on such a high upkeep. I would have a difficult time thinking of games on this scale that asked the deep questions and did so meaningfully. Maybe KotOR 2? Information technology'south something unique, and there's a lot of amuse in it'due south... earnestness, I estimate.
First i will say that i played the original NieR and loved its characters and world, and then the loose connections to that game present in Automata are really cool to me.
I similar Automata for most of the same reasons as the first game, and although the characters have a much more compact and varied feel in the original game, there are enough intricacies in the plot of Automata to make information technology enjoyable.
I'chiliad a fan of Platinum Games' work, Automata doesn't represent their all-time gainsay engine but overall i wouldn't say information technology's terrible, it's basic just i enjoyed mixing up attacks not simply to observe the "best" ones only also to see their awesome animations.
The mixing upward of genre tropes which was so prevalent in the showtime game is used to skilful effect here, and the render of the incredible style of music is very heart warming, it'due south clearly a project which the people involved cared about.
I tin't really talk much about what i liked well-nigh the story, i finished it six months ago so i don't remember much nearly the minutiae, i remember very well designed enemies, seeing a robot experiencing a tragedy it can't fully empathise breaks my heart and this game is full of that, the crazy guy who yous have to aid fund his infinite cannon, the various human moments between the androids like the idea of shopping for fun and ownership 2B a t-shirt, the Emil heads in the desert and the explanation behind them (i wish i remembered what it was), Emil merely generally existence insane, the robot hamlet full of character and innocence, the fierce dedication of the robots in the woods kingdom, all these picayune sugary $.25 on summit of the actually adept main plot, and the way they utilize unexpected mechanics of the game to as well tell story, it'south just innovative and creative in an industry full of aforementioned-one-time'due south, it was unique and special not in its budget or gameplay but in its whole.
If this isn't the response you were looking for i'm sorry, but information technology's the response you're getting :P.
Firstly, I enjoyed the gameplay mode more than other people. I don't call back it'due south astonishing or anything, but people deed like its' nearly unbearable and I simply don't get that.
The soundtrack might be my favorite of all time. This is boosted by how it's used in the game, with different versions of the songs playing at different times/as you lot transition to dissimilar areas.
I actually recall the story is incredible. A lot of people seem to boil it downwardly to just some other "tin AI achieve consciousness?" story. If that's all you got out of this game, I feel like yous weren't paying attention. It asks and answers that question within like three hours.
The rest of the game explores the deeper implications of that. If robots want to be man, what does that look like? How might AI endeavour to emulate humanity? What would different machines see as the defining characteristics of humanity? Some see it as mortality (Adam and Eve), or love (Amusement Park machines), or peace (Pascal), or duty (2B), or hatred (9S), or beauty (Simone), etc.
Are humans even like humans? If yous try to isolate what makes humans unique and emulate these characteristics, yous realize that humans themselves don't even act on them. Despite their efforts, none of the various types of AI e'er really become humans, they just capture very specific truths near humanity.
The biggest question this game asks, though, is why? Why should AI endeavor to exist like humans? Humans aren't the "practiced guys" of the universe. The robots are left in world without them, and for most of the game, their obsessed with trying to recreate them. Only at the very cease do the machines realize that Humanity doesn't matter, Globe doesn't matter, and they should just leave and create something new.
All this is done with a cast of (mostly) extremely well-defined often very likable characters. You lot see how different people react to the undoing of a society that was always doomed. Thier own pursuits of Humanity come back to destroy them. Shifts in perspective are one of the most important role of this game. They bear witness y'all different ways of thinking, show y'all more pieces of the larger puzzle that no single robot tin can encounter. Ultimately, they beginning to signify that something terrible is about to happen (the A2 shift, the Pascal shift, the Ending C & D choice).
And of couse, all the meta shit. There's no argument I can really make for all that. If it really did nothing for you, there'due south goose egg I can say.
In the stop, this game presented an extremely nihilistic and hopeless view of the world, and humanity, and the time to come. In Ending E, it somehow manages to take all these and, without rejecting it all, says that despite all of that beingness true, at that place is still purpose and promise. And that is worth the residual.
So yes, I loved this game, and in that location'south cypher else quite like it. I hope this at to the lowest degree helped you understand it a little. You should really listen to the Waypoint spoilercast if you want some more specific stuff.
@theloyaltraitor: I enjoyed the gainsay in Nier: AM. It felt fluid and the animations themselves as well showcased just that. While very Anime-similar it still actually felt like bodily human being fluidity, its in a way actually like watching Wushu movies but in bodily playable form.
Not to mention the weapon stories, the best function of the game, were freaking amazing and made gainsay more worthwhile.
@elmorales94: In my case, I didn't actually care too much well-nigh the game's themes or story (it's all stuff that I experience has been handled better elsewhere). Personally I felt like the reason so many people are impressed with Neir's ruminations on existentialism and humanity is considering it'due south their starting time personal come across with information technology, particularly the Japanese flavor of information technology. The presentation feels a tad unfocused and the game occasionally dips too far into shock value for my tastes. It probably has to exercise with fact that I'chiliad a big fan of both traditional scifi and anime, though. So the whole "what does it mean to be homo" thing is well-worn footing for me.
In any case, what I really enjoyed almost Neir is the style it plays with genre conventions and player expectations, especially with how information technology disregards the quaternary wall. Little touches like the fleck systems affecting the UI, or when the game plays back your own unique setup inputs to yous when playing equally 9S, or shooting the final credits like a vertical scroller. I loved how the game swaps dorsum and forth between being a Platinum hack-n-slash, a bullet hell shooter, and a Geometry Wars-esque twin stick shooter depending on what yous're doing. I loved all the random "bad cease" endings, and how the credits scroll super fast for those. I loved how the availability of saving and fast travel tied into the plot regarding the status of the bunker. I liked how game toys with the thought of player choice, peculiarly the very terminate of route Due east when information technology asks you to delete your save to help other players through the cyberspace. There's tons of examples like that, and it all felt very Hideo Kojima, when he was at his top of fucking with the histrion in MGS2.
Simply aye, Neir: Automata suffers by making the player slog through all the trappings of a B-tier Japanese game to run into all the wacky stuff. Simply don't become me wrong, the Japanese season, both to the gameplay, the storytelling, and the characters, are a critical role of what make Neir unique in gaming these days.
@theloyaltraitor: what if I got all that and still found it an obnoxious boring slog of a game? None of what you said or what the game did resonated or was presented in an interesting enough fashion. A lot of it felt virtually Southward Park-y in its executions of:
- Present Character A
- Acquire that Character A is either childishly virtuous or childishly fiendish
- Acquire that Character A'due south childishness comes from twisted mutation of desires of humanity from eons agone
- Repeat
I say its South Park-y because presenting something every bit cute and ineffectual and and then turning it into a monster is essentially the basis of Southward Park'southward humour. I don't know if Nier'due south creator is laughing at the characters, or the audience, and frankly, I presume he's doing both and i find that actually obnoxious. Relentless nihilistic self-deprecation and flagellation is a little played out, in my opinion.
I feel the few interactions Legion has with Shepard in Mass Effect two do a ameliorate job at putting along these undoubtedly heady and interesting subjects.
ah, well, to each their own... fine art and whatnot, amiright?
Everything expect the gameplay is pretty amazing. Music, story and all the peachy means it plays with the medium were big highlights for me.
And I don't think the gameplay is terrible, merely as a Platinum game it's dissapointing. The difficulty'south also suck, either the game is too easy, or it's brutally hard.
@katygaga: Yeah, I approximate I only don't know what to say other than "I didn't feel that way well-nigh the game at all." Nothing about it came off as obnoxious or boring or poorly-executed to me. I think the fact that the characters are cartoonishly good or evil is kinda the unabridged point. They capture the extremes of human being emotion without any of the nuance, until near the end of the game.
Those bits of Mass Outcome 2 present some these ideas more than clearly, just I don't recall information technology goes nearly as far as Nier, and they lack any emotional weight. They're just philosophical conversations. I adopt a "bear witness, don't tell" approach. And honestly I idea Nier was the only game about AI in contempo memory that didn't feel played out. I wouldn't phone call the nihilism of this game cocky-deprecation or flagellation. Given Ending Eastward, I think it very specifically rejects that way of thinking.
And then...yeah, to each their own, I gauge.
@theloyaltraitor:
Yeah the whole point of Ending E is to tell the player through the actions of the characters that it's okay to fail, only you demand to exercise things for yourself. But even if you falter, don't be scared to rely on others. There's a message of hope (for the androids and the player), that subversive cycles tin can be broken. As someone who is constantly stuck in a cocky-subversive cycle, the game meant a lot to me.
I'm very much a western gamer, but Nier got its hooks in me.
It has its faults, merely information technology won a place in my eye for:
- Full general weirdness
- Amazing music (orchestral and eight-chip + dynamic switching)
- Subversive ideas/story telling
- Gameplay variance/mash-ups (graphic symbol activeness + bullet hell / character activity + bullet hell + dual stick shooter / infinite shooter + bullet hell, etc.)
- The management of the very late game is amazing
- Memorable locations, such every bit the entertainment park
- The unabridged catastrophe sequence, credit sequence, etc...it'south oddly uplifting and poignant.
The entire game is kinda downwardly about things, but as well hopeful. It has a beautiful melancholy nigh it. Information technology's introspective (enough) without being preachy.
I found it to be a unique and flawed game that had a ton of heart and quirk to it.
EDIT: -10 points for 9S being a fuckboy
@theloyaltraitor:
I empathise, and I don't want anyone to take it as that they're "wrong" for liking a game. its simply for me Nier was a complete misfire and the more fervent and loud its fanbase gets, the more I realized how off-the-mark Nier was. The thing is that I don't similar answers to questions, I like questions. That to me is the ground of the best works of art. Nier feels like its all "answers" by some emo kid that read wiki manufactures almost Jean Paul Sartre for beginning time.
The fact that the characters are extremes are completely antithetical to what I find interesting, which is the nature of existence and if that can really be fully appreciated or even understood. All Nier does is present things that are relatable at the well-nigh bones level and and then apply them to cliched questions of Sci-fi, all of which event in failure to me. The irony of ironies is that the question of "tin AI achieve consciousness?" is much more than complicated and interesting a question than Nier lets on or wants to venture into. The narrative of the game simply implies "Yep, only information technology sucks anyway....(cough)...".
It merely feels so MTV in the 90'southward-lame.
I didn't play through Catastrophe E, so maybe information technology'll change my perception, but the 3 main endings were pretty ho-hum.
The thing virtually Mass Result ii is that its much more focused and concise than Nier. Moments where there is a long pause afterward Shepard asks Legion why he took his armor, are in my mind better than Nier e'er could exist.
In that location's some of that in Nier just its compounded by such drivel and hatred that it reminds me of Harmony Korine's Gummo.
blah blah apathetic, art, heart beholder...then along.
@theloyaltraitor:
There'due south some of that in Nier but its compounded past such drivel and hatred that information technology reminds me of Harmony Korine'south Gummo.
blah blah blah, art, eye beholder...and then along.
This doesn't make any sense and makes me feel like you're lying most playing the game. I've played through it -twice- and that'due south definitely not even close to what it's like.
Like, the whole bespeak of the game is that "yes life can suck, but that doesn't mean it's not worth experiencing". That's what Catastrophe East is about.
As well I didn't get like a unmarried thing from anything Legion related in ME2 or three that I got from Automata.
@rubberluffy: I stated I didn't play through Ending Eastward.
Also, you playing it twice doesn't negate the fact that I experience Nier is the Gummo of gaming. Aye, I said it. THE GUMMO...OF GAMING.
Everything just meshes together so well. The await, the design, the music, the story, the characters...it'south simply everything. I know that'south non a real specific answer, but information technology just nails everything for me.
I love Gummo and Nier: Automata is pretty proficient too.
For me, the existentialism in Nier is not the main reason I've grown attached to information technology. It is its story telling washed in a way just video games tin, use of game mechanics to do simply weird and interesting things, and its re-framing of its narrative multiple times from endings A to E that gets me emotionally hooked on it. Existential robots is simply window dressing.
@katygaga said:
@theloyaltraitor:
All Nier does is present things that are relatable at the most bones level and so apply them to cliched questions of Sci-fi, all of which result in failure to me.
What does this even mean?
@katygaga said:
blah blah apathetic, art, heart beholder...and so along.
I actually believe this, and find your passive-ambitious, ironic spouting of it to exist really shitty.
I was responding in kind to TheLoyalTraitor's annotate. We ended our comments with an understanding that art is in the eye of beholder. Which I believe it is.
I also wrote "I don't want anyone to take it as that they're "wrong" for liking a game.".
Im non sure how y'all can find me not liking a game a class of passive-aggressiveness. Ill say it once more, if yous like Nier, you're non incorrect or right. This is a thing of opinion. Im sorry y'all find this so ..."shitty"....
For me, the existentialism in Nier is non the main reason I've grown attached to it. It is its story telling done in a fashion only video games can, utilise of game mechanics to exercise simply weird and interesting things, and its re-framing of its narrative multiple times from endings A to E that gets me emotionally hooked on it. Existential robots is just window dressing.
@katygaga said:
@theloyaltraitor:
All Nier does is present things that are relatable at the most bones level and then apply them to cliched questions of Sci-fi, all of which result in failure to me.
What does this even mean?
Deplorable, I could accept said that better. I was responding to the commenter's opinion on how the farthermost characters meshed with the thought of consciousness. To me, Nier was presenting basic characterization, that is ultimately very relatable, and mixing them very complicated questions near morality and existence. Its as if information technology was presenting questions that were genuinely interesting only to destroy them by presenting characters that had childish delusions thoughtlessly foisted upon them past the madness of human beings. It was presenting these characters as answers, and I found that pretty obnoxious.
It was presenting these characters equally answers, and I found that pretty obnoxious.
This actually gives me some clarity. I as well 100% disagree with the notion that the characters are presented as answers. They are merely lenses, zippo more than.
Oh, I forgot to mention the music. The music in these games are all fantastic. Information technology was the only actually proficient part of Drakengard too.
it's a japanese game, which was your first mistake in thinking information technology was worth something.
Ending E is some stupid matter well-nigh going through and shooting the credits until you die enough times, and then other accounts save you. Except information technology'due south all a lie considering japanese people prevarication, don't believe that tiny trivial state.
Nier: Automata is a weird game. I probably have as many problems with it as I do things I enjoyed (only overall I still similar the game and would recommend it to all my friends). Just you asked for the positives so here they are:
1) The soundtrack. Best soundtrack this twelvemonth, hands downward.
2) The framing of the story. Going through A, then loading B and seeing your menu choices in A happen, then the parallel story lines, etc etc. I thought it was all pretty well done and refreshingly unique.
3) I enjoyed a number of the side quests and the story overall and it'southward themes.
iv) The perspective changing of the gainsay and switch between bullet-hell sequences and regular combat.
5) I can savor ending E for what information technology is trying to do, but equally a more mechanics/logical thinker I wish it was designed a little ameliorate. The whole "delete other people'southward saves" thing was diminished in my mind because I knew that logically there was no way that saves could exist to assistance people out unless they didn't really go deleted. Otherwise there would have had to be a whole slew of people who managed to make it through the credits due west/o dying (and accepting help) to be able to offer upward their saves for other people. Instead it is more likely that once you lot offer up your relieve it can be used for any number of people. Unless there was some option that let you delete your save to assistance others w/o making information technology through the bullet hell credits that I missed?
Source: https://www.giantbomb.com/nierautomata/3030-49998/forums/be-honest-with-me-why-do-you-love-nier-automata-sp-1816970/
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